Thursday, May 2, 2013

"I want the job but I don't want to have to do the work"


OK readers, here's an exchange I recently had on Facebox with a high school classmate.  Am I way off base in thinking that if someone signs on as a fireman that they shouldn't complain when they are actually required to go out and fight a fire?  If you are a policeman I would certainly hope you entertain the possibility that some day someone might actually try to shoot you.  In both cases planning, preparation and training take place ahead of time to minimize a negative outcome.  Read below and let me know what you think.  (updated w/ additional comments, had to do it again, didn't expand some of the comments the first time around, sorry.)


Hannah Thein via Democracy Now!
Tuesday at 7:47pm · 


  • Kimberly Rivera, Pregnant Mom of 4, Sentenced to Military Prison for Refusing to Serve in Iraq
    www.democracynow.org
    Private First Class Kimberly Rivera — a conscientious objector and pregnant mother of four — has just been sentenced to military prison for refusing to serve in the Iraq War. Rivera was on a two-week leave in December 2006 when she decided she would not return to Iraq for a second tour of duty. She…
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    • Jim Riddell Then she never should have signed up for the military, sorry, but it has to be said.
    • Hannah Thein She served one tour...and she is a conscientious objector on top of that. I have issues with the way the US uses soldiers over and over again, tour after tour..as well as having a path for people who are conscientious objectors..in Germany, you can serve your country in other ways than going to war if you are a conscientious objector. It is not as black and white as you say here..and I know, as the mother of an Iraq veteran..
    • Jim Riddell The point is she likely wasn't forced to join the army, she knew what they did. It would be like someone joining the fire department but refusing to go help with any fire. The path in the U.S. for CO's is to not join in a peace-time army. During Viet Nam, COs had to prove their status (if drafted) and they were given an 'out'. Since she has already done one tour she must not be a 'strict' CO, sort of like a vegetarian that enjoys a steak now and again.
    • Hannah Thein not everyone knows everything ahead of time: for example when Ryan joined there was no war..and if you look at how the national guard and other military have been used, there is no precedent for the number of tours etc. have you researched this? You can become a CO after experiencing war, can't you???? How about becoming a vegetarian after seeing a cow slaughtered? it seems you give no room for learning from experience..like someone is born knowing everything.
    • Jim Riddell 1. There is no mention of her 'becoming' a CO. 2. She deserted instead of following channels which are available, apparently. 3. Regardless of what a situation is when joining (army, fire dept, police dept, etc.) the possibility for that type of duty is ALWAYS there. 4. History of Viet Nam COs certainly set the 'former knowledge' bar pretty low, not to baby level but still. 5. The 'mother' sympathy-card is no more compelling than the race-card would be. 6. COs usually are given non-combat duties however there's no background as to what her duties were even. I'd be curious as to her MOS.
    • Hannah Thein where does it say she didn't follow the channels. She is a recognized CO. What is MOS?
    • Jim Riddell I said that apparently she didn't follow channels and if she were a 'recognized' CO the army has tracks that deal with it. An MOS is your job in the military. If she had a MOS as a cook (no sexist stereotype implied) then it's not a combat job.
    • Francis Covey Thi is what I got out of this story....She decided that she didn't want be separated from her family any longer. Aparently she felt being in the military was a mistake. She made another mistake deserting! Obviously two wrongs STILL don't make a right. Hopefully that is something this world will never change completely.
    • Hannah Thein "My country right or wrong" --is that it? is there no room for dissent in your eyes? Is there any room for civil disobedience? No room for taking a stand when you think the government is abusing its populace? You wouldn't make very good Revolutionary W...See More

      Concern voiced on multiple tours of duty - The Boston Globe
      www.boston.com
      WASHINGTON -- The majority of US troops scheduled to rotate into Iraq next year ...See More
    • Hannah Thein My kid has done enough, thank God he didn't sign back up. I speak from experience: do you? Have you had a kid in Iraq? I used to hand out directions to the next recruitment office for people who are so gung ho to send others into combat, again and again and again. And yes, it IS different now than any other time in history--the burden on our soldiers..MOS cook or not.
    • Hannah Thein http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/military/2010-01-12-four-army-war-tours_N.htm

      Repeated deployments weigh heavily on U.S. troops - USATODAY.com
      usatoday30.usatoday.com
      The cycles of combat have been so long and so frequent that nearly 13,000 soldie...See More
    • Hannah Thein do a google search of your own and look into it for yourself.
    • Jim Riddell Unfortunately I cannot enlist or I most certainly would. I have looked into this. My son is currently serving and has done two deployments in Kosovo - a not completely safe area. He is most likely going to re-up in part b/c of the poor economic situation that the 735+/- in DC have gotten us into all the while demonizing 42% of the population while lionizing a 10% group. And, yes, every single one of those people are part of your one-percenters. The fact remains, she made her bed and is now whining about having to face the music (I love mixing metaphors). BTW, the Revolutionary War solders served for the duration in many instances and didn't go home after one deployment. I have a very good friend who's son has had a couple tours in Iraq already. It is disingenuous to abandon your fellow soldiers while expecting special treatment. Besides, it wasn't re-deployment in the first place - she deserted following a two week leave. And yes, more people should serve, I have regretted many times that I didn't but at the time there was no need. We should be like Greece, Switzerland and many other countries and require some sort of service from each young adult then they might have a little better perspective on freedom and responsibility.
    • Hannah Thein Kosovo.....my kid was driving a humvee on RPG alley going into Baghdad every day for a year. You should hear his stories... Try that on as a parent--let alone a soldier!! The Revolutionary soldiers were fighting against the English...their government..yet you seem to think you can never question your government.she served a year in Iraq--and you call her a whiner because she is standing up against the ridiculousness of multiple tours in ridiculous wars. As I said: DISSENT. Is that a dirty word in your book? NOT MINE. LAME asses are sheeple that do whatever their government tells them to do, even if it is illegal, immoral, and DUMB. I loved that VT declared Bush a war criminal BECAUSE HE IS. But I totally AGREE with your last point--service from every young adult.
    • Jim Riddell Don't tell me what I'm thinking, you have no idea. I never said not to question, the issue at hand was the timing and method. Again, nothing was mentioned about multiple tours, she was on a tour and had a 2 week leave, her unit was still on deployment. 

      Obama has continued these military fiascoes and attacked Lybia, Yemen and Pakistan. Why are you not declaring him a war criminal. He hasn't closed Gitmo as promised, he didn't protect Benghazi but gives F16s to Islamic extremists in Egypt, just what this area of the world needs. And when evidence in Syria comes out about Obama's defined line in the sand he waffles. How many people have to die (and re-deploy) on his watch before some of the responsibility falls on him?

      I have no problem with dissent, I dissent on a number of issues.
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